Yamato is a material synonymous with the Brooklyn Museum. “All-Japan” leather is the result of a few small discomforts and embodies Kusagaya’s passion and passion for leather. This time, we asked him to share with us the many thoughts that went into "Yamato."
Interview with Brooklyn Museum Leather Craftsman and Representative Director Masahiko Kusagaya (Part 1)
━ Yamato uses Wagyu beef skin, but what made you decide to use Wagyu beef in the first place?
In fact, there is almost no ``pure domestic leather'' that uses leather harvested in Japan.
━ But there are leather products made in Japan, right?
The so-called "Japanese leather" that is distributed in Japan is certainly made in Japan, but the raw leather is mostly imported from overseas. The common practice is to tan the raw hides from all over the world, such as America, South America, and Southeast Asia, in Japan and use them as materials. I thought this was normal until about 20 years ago.
━ What made you think that this is not normal?
A leather shop I met 20 years ago asked me, ``What kind of leather do you use?'' When I replied that it was imported, he said, ``Why don't you use Japanese leather? There are so many good Japanese leathers out there.'' It was a surprise. Until then, I had never thought of using Japanese leather.
━ Is Japanese leather difficult to obtain?
No, I actually have a lot left over. A large amount of it is being disposed of.
━ Are you being thrown away? ? Why?
At that time, I had my doubts as well and did some research. Then, I began to see the ``division'' surrounding cows.
━ Is it a division?
Surprisingly, there was no conduit between the livestock industry, which raises cattle, and the leather industry, where we operate. In short, there was no distribution route. If you think about it normally, it wouldn't be strange if there were, but there were zero points of contact.
━ Is there zero contact? However, skin is definitely generated during the process of turning meat into food, right? I feel like if people in the leather industry say they want something like that, they'll be able to come to an agreement right away...
That's right. However, since both industries were established without this, it seems that no action was taken by either side. Beef cattle farmers and dairy farmers can make a living by selling beef and milk, so they didn't have to do anything with the skin. On the other hand, in the leather industry, there was no need to go to the trouble of developing a route to purchase domestically produced leather, as it was more cost-effective from a business perspective to purchase large quantities of cheap raw hides from overseas.
━ In other words, does this mean that no one has ever done it because there is no particular benefit to either industry?
I think so. I thought this was a huge waste.
━ It's a waste. If I were to throw it away, I could probably get it for free...
It's a capitalist country, so it costs money. The skin will probably be thrown away anyway, but it's part of a cow that was raised with a lot of time and love. However, they tend to be more expensive than imported products.
━ When it comes to meat, Wagyu beef is more expensive than imported meat.
I agree. It's the same feeling.
━ I understand that imported leather is the mainstream in Japan, but how do you procure leather materials overseas?
For example, Italy is the world's largest producer of leather goods, and of course they use leather from their own country. The same goes for France, Spain, and America.
━ Cheese is essential to Italian cuisine. And meat too. Countries that consume a lot of beef tend to produce a lot of leather products.
that's right. In the world, all cow meat and skin are consumed within the country. Especially in countries with famous leather goods brands, food and fashion are equally valued as part of the culture, and I think the people involved are highly skilled. For example, in Italy, it is not uncommon to find very long-established tanneries that have been in business for over 400 years. Perhaps that's why most Italian leather is purely Italian. Every time I see it, I can't help but think, ``The pride and confidence of Italian craftsmen is condensed here.''
━ Speaking of global brands with strong leather products, Hermes and Louis Vuitton come to mind first, but what about France?
France hasn't lost to Italy either. Don't you have the impression that dishes like "veal ○○" are standard in French cuisine? In other words, there is a lot of young, firm calf skin in France. We then use this material to create purely domestically produced leather materials. The mutually complementary relationship between food and fashion has been going on for hundreds of years.
━ It's certainly a lean relationship. Speaking of meat, America has the image of being a meat-loving nation, but does it also have a wide variety of leather products?
It's fulfilling. If you like leather shoes, you'll definitely know Tanner Horween, which is world-famous. This is a company that wholesales leather to Alden. What's great about America is that while there is European-like distribution for making one-of-a-kind items, by creating a market for raw hides, we are able to mass produce and consume them in large quantities, and monetize raw hides as a commercial product.
━ We consume a large amount of meat for steaks and hamburgers, and the skin that comes out of that process is also sold as an ingredient.
There are so many cow hides that we have enough to sell to other countries. That's why America is focusing on exporting raw hides. By the way, many of them are coming to Japan.
━ I see. In Japan, skin is thrown away as garbage, but in Europe it becomes a high-quality material that supports the fashion industry in their own country, and in the United States it is used as a commercial product.
Japan consumes all of its beef and that's it, but Europe uses up all of its beef, and America turns even by-products like raw hides into a major industry. I want to do something about the current situation where Japan is doing such a wasteful thing.
━ Currently, Japan has not been able to achieve this because the livestock industry and the leather industry are separated, but is it possible to create an eco-friendly cycle like Italy and France, which are big countries in leather, by using up everything, making good leather products, and using them for a long time?
I think you can. Nowadays, ecology and SDGs are beginning to take hold as values around the world, but I believe that the ``mottainai spirit'' is imprinted in the DNA of the Japanese people. Nowadays, we have forgotten a little bit, but if we remember that spirit, I believe that Japanese people are the best people in the world to live an eco-friendly and SDG-oriented way of life.
━ What should I do?
Speaking from the perspective of a leather craftsman, I believe that we can gradually change society's values by doing what we can in our respective positions: ``not wasting materials,'' ``creating long-lasting products with good materials,'' and ``supplying high-quality items at a fair price.'' One of our proposals is Yamato, which is made from Japanese beef leather.
━ What was your first impression of Wagyu beef skin?
I thought the skin was very delicate and fresh. People from overseas often praise Japanese people for their beautiful skin, and it is said that this is because there are four seasons. Pores open during the warm season and close during the cold season. Our skin does exercise unconsciously. Furthermore, Japan also has a moderate amount of humidity. Also, the UV rays are not as strong as they are overseas. In addition to such a privileged environment, cows raised with care by professional livestock and dairy farmers have beautiful skin that is the envy of everyone. This was a big discovery.
━ By the way, what kind of cow is ideal for raw hides?
This is a male dairy cow raised in a cold region.
━ Dairy cow? And is it male?
that's right. Meat cows are raised to be larger than they should be, ``for eating''. The skin of meat that is ``delicious to eat'' and has marbling is actually longer than the cow's original state. So I have no choice but to exclude it. The ideal is a cow that grows to a certain size by grazing naturally and eating grass. A cow that is good for making into hides is one that has lean, muscular meat that doesn't have much marbling. After doing some research, I discovered that male dairy cows are shipped as red meat when they reach a certain age. So, when I received the skin and tried processing it, I was able to create something close to the quality I was looking for.
━It's surprising that dairy cows could be the ideal material!
Moreover, the regions where dairy farming is popular are cold regions such as Tohoku and Hokkaido. This also had a big impact on the texture of the skin.
━ It is often said that women in snowy countries have beautiful skin, but does this mean that cows have beautiful skin as well?
Actually, it's the same with cows. Since he's a male, he's more like a snow country beauty than a snow country beauty (lol).
━ What are the benefits of having fine skin texture?
The range of colors that can be expressed is completely different. Raw hides from overseas are often dyed with pigments during processing. Pigments have the advantage of being able to cover up any rough skin, but in order to create a more delicate color, I wanted to use dyes instead of pigments. However, raw hides from overseas are salted to prevent them from rotting, so during processing, the salt cannot be removed completely and the color cannot be applied properly.
━ Primary processing has already been done for products produced overseas.
On the other hand, Wagyu beef skin has a fine texture and is produced domestically, so it is not salted. Therefore, it is possible to express various shades of color using dyes. When creating things, being able to express many colors is an overwhelming advantage. Moreover, it feels nice to the touch. Good to look at and feel to the touch is an absolute prerequisite for a high-quality leather material. With Wagyu beef, this can be expressed at a high level.
━If you wanted to make something good, using Wagyu beef skin was an inevitable choice.
I agree. I believe that Japanese cow leather, which is made using an all-Japan system in which the hides of cows born and raised in Japan are processed by Japanese craftsmen, is a material that can be proud of around the world, and I hope that Yamato can become a pioneer in this field.
━ What changes do you feel have occurred since Yamato was announced in 2004?
We are truly grateful for the patronage of so many people. Over the years, we have had many thoughts about the various environments surrounding leather products, but we believe that by developing this iconic item in-house, we have become clear about the "goals" we should aim for.
━ What kind of goal is that?
I now have a clear idea that I want to share the charm of Japanese leather products with the world. However, at the same time, I also became aware of a ``big problem.'' There's a shortage of craftsmen.
━ How many craftsmen are there at the Brooklyn Museum now?
Currently, it is run by about three people. Each of our products requires more work than others, and we do not compromise on quality, which is what is commonly called ``troublesome'' manufacturing.
━ Even so, it is impossible to reduce the work process or lower the desired quality level.
that's right. If we don't take care of that ``trouble'', we won't be able to create originality, and above all, we won't be able to create ``products that can be used for a long time,'' which is also our philosophy. That's why, recently, I've started to think that we need to recruit young people who want to become craftsmen who make items in Brooklyn, rather than young people who want to become leather craftsmen.
━Which comes first, the chicken or the egg? That's troubling.
At the same time, there is another issue that must be resolved. Nowadays, the harsh reality is that the biggest reason why working craftspeople do not pass on their shops to their children is that they cannot make money. Fortunately, I was able to take over the store from my predecessor, but I feel that the current situation is too hopeless. By the time I pass the baton to the next generation, I want to build a system that will allow craftsmen to earn a solid income.
━ This is a problem common to the entire industry...
In order to do something about this, I would like to make Brooklyn a brand like Hermès and Louis Vuitton, where items that are carefully made by skilled craftsmen over time can be purchased at a reasonable price. If we can realize the ideals desired by our customers and our craftsmen can receive commensurate remuneration, the industry will not decline. I want to make a model case for that.
━ In today's society, there is an atmosphere where "cheapness is justice." What do you think about that?
I understand that such values exist, and I do not deny them. However, even in such a world, we continue to make products with the belief that if we continue to uphold the ideals we strive for, we will surely meet craftsmen who sympathize with our ideals, and those who sympathize with our ideas will become our customers. I hope that someday, the circle of empathy will expand and people who share the same thoughts will awaken the values that Japanese people have forgotten. That's why I expect Yamato to play a role as a "symbol of empathy."
We want the world we live in to be natural and natural...
``Yamato'', which was born from this belief, could be called a banner that points the way.
And what is the “Brooklyn Vision” envisioned by Representative Kusagaya?
Edit & Interview：Ryuichi Takao
