Special conversation between Chef Fumio Yonezawa and Masahiko Kusagaya

-Part 2-

Chef Fumio Yonezawa x Masahiko Kusagaya
Special conversation

-Part 2-

A conversation between a discerning chef and a discerning leather craftsman who respect each other is realized! Although they work in different industries, they have many things in common, such as their passion as creators and their feelings for the next generation. What is something that you have come to realize as a chef and leather craftsman whose career spans more than 20 years? And what do you want to convey to the children who will carry the future?

Kusagaya: March of this year marks 20 years since we started retailing, and we are very thankful that we have quite a few customers who have been coming to our store for the past 20 years.

Yonezawa: 20 years? That's amazing.

Kusagaya: I'm really grateful. We have been able to grow together with these customers, and we have received a lot of support from them, especially during the unstable social situation of the past two years, and I feel that we have transcended the relationship between craftsman and customer and have been working together to protect the brand of ``Brooklyn Museum.''

Yonezawa: It's a wonderful relationship. The same can be said for the food and beverage industry. For the past two years, there have been headwinds blowing in the restaurant industry, but most of the restaurants that have survived still have fans. There are many delicious restaurants, but there are not so many that will make you want to go there. Once again, I am keenly aware of the importance of building relationships of trust with our customers. I don't think this trend will change even if society calms down in the future.In fact, I think that the presence or absence of emotional connections with customers will be more strongly reflected in management.

Kusagaya: In that case, it becomes even more important to have someone who strongly sympathizes with the creator.

Yonezawa: I think so. I think it's very important to meet customer expectations and run a down-to-earth business, even though it may seem simple. I think the ideal situation would be for people to sympathize with our store's concept, become fans, and create a special connection with us. If we can do that, I think that even if the times change somewhat, we will not waver.

Kusagaya: It would be ideal if we could create a “connection” where we need each other. This is something I think about more and more every year, but as you've been doing it for a long time, have you ever had a moment when you feel a "mysterious connection"?

Yonezawa: There are so many. Especially in the past year or so, I've felt this strongly. It's like old connections are taking shape. There were many times when I thought, ``I'm glad I came here.'' This year marks the 24th year since I started cooking, and there have been so many times when connections from about 20 years ago suddenly took shape, and when I reunited with old people and decided to do something together.

Kusagaya: I had many similar experiences.

Yonezawa: One day, I thought that this was my reward for continuing to work hard. If you've been doing it for a long time, you'll have many painful experiences, but there are also many happy moments where you can form connections by continuing, so I now think that ``continuing'' is one way to expand your opportunities.

Kusagaya: I understand. There is such a thing as a “reward for continuing to do something.”

Yonezawa: This is something I would like to convey to young people who are about to start something new. When you're young, you tend to be impatient with results, wanting to succeed right away and be appreciated, but life is long and I've learned that even if you don't get evaluated early, if you keep doing what you do, you'll be evaluated at your own timing, so I hope I can pass that on as an experience. It is extremely rare for someone to achieve success in their 20s and continue that momentum into their 60s. Rather than that, it is important to steadily build up your strength at your own pace toward the ideal you are striving for.If you continue to do so, there will come a time when you will be rewarded for your continued efforts, so I hope that I can continue to do so for the next 20 years.

Kusagaya: It's important to maintain your own stance and pace. Recently, I have come to think once again that "basic skills" are important. Even if you want to incorporate new things, if you don't have a solid foundation, you won't be able to build on anything new.

Yonezawa: Basic skills are very important. I think the range of expression you have as a creator changes depending on how big your foundation is, but if your foundation is small, you may find yourself unable to apply it and get stuck if something happens. Especially since the current situation, I feel this often. I believe that if you have a certain level of foundation, you will not be shaken, and on that foundation you will be able to create new ideas, respond to social changes, and be prepared to take a step forward.

Yonezawa: This has been said for a long time, but sustainability will become a must in any industry in the future. I have always believed that we need to create an infrastructure that allows for a "food cycle," and Mr. Kusagaya has been working on this for quite some time, hasn't he?

Kusagaya: The same goes for leather as well, as we need to improve the infrastructure. There is no infrastructure in place to circulate leather. Currently, I am also trying to make leather items using Wagyu beef skin, which had previously been discarded, but the reality is that only a small portion of the leather can be made into products, and most of it is discarded. I would like to somehow change this.

Yonezawa: In order to make a change, we need to get people to understand the value of Wagyu leather and get the business off the ground. I understand why people choose cheap foreign leather, but that doesn't create a circulation within Japan, so something needs to be done about it.

Kusagaya: You're right. There is a limit to the amount of Wagyu leather that we can use, so I think this is an issue that needs to be addressed by the industry as a whole. At the same time as increasing the number of friends who use Wagyu leather, we are working through trial and error every day in hopes of becoming a model case by achieving business success with items made from Wagyu leather.

Yonezawa: This is common in any industry, but if sustainability and low environmental impact come to be recognized as added value like they do overseas, I'm sure a lot of things will change. The prices of raw materials are skyrocketing, and I think there will come a time when we have no choice but to raise prices. At times like these, a major turning point will be whether or not there are customers who understand our sustainable efforts and accept that increased purchasing prices will be reflected in prices.

Kusagaya: I agree with you too. I am truly grateful that many of my customers sympathize with my efforts and thoughts. In the future, I feel that we need to put even more effort into initiatives that consider not only products but also relationships as a whole.

Yonezawa: The presence of supporters who understand the reason and understand the reason will be important in any business from now on. Otherwise, it will be difficult to take on challenges that directly reflect prices.

Kusagaya: I think you're right.

Yonezawa: Furthermore, due to the situation in Ukraine, prices are expected to soar in all fields for some time, and the yen is also depreciating, so as someone who lives in a resource-poor Japan, I have to anticipate a variety of situations and respond flexibly without sticking to previous ideas.

Kusagaya: That's right. It looks like the tough situation will continue, but I would like to continue to update my industry and give dreams to children while creating things with faith.

Yonezawa: I feel the same way.

Kusagaya: Lately, I've been trying to use scraps of leather as much as possible, and I've been making things like cord clips. I think the immediate thing I can do now is to use it up without wasting it.

Yonezawa: This cord clip is so stylish that you can't believe it was made from scraps!

Kusagaya: We used scraps like this to let children experience making things at our shop. We have received many inquiries from customers with children asking, ``Can we hold an event for children?''

To Yonezawa: Sounds interesting!

Kusagaya: At that time, about 10 children around the age of 10 gathered, and we started by talking about food education, and then we talked about familiar food and got them interested in the scraps of leather in front of them, such as, ``This kind of leather is made from the meat that we usually eat,'' and ``Items made from this leather are carefully made to last for a long time, so they can be used for many years.''

Yonezawa: What was the child's reaction?

Kusagaya: The children seemed to understand that the pieces of leather were special, and they were all interested, so we all said, ``Let's make decorations using this leather!'' and made leather art together. I cut out a leaf shape from the leather and explained to them, ``This is leather that changes over time, so by the time everyone turns 20, it should have changed to its own unique color.'' They seemed to instinctively sense that ``This is a good product that will last for nearly 10 years,'' and they handled it with care.

Yonezawa: Children are obedient, aren't they?

Kusagaya: Yes, really. After the class was over, all the children seemed happy to talk to their parents, and I thought I would like to continue creating opportunities like this in the future if the children can learn while having fun.

Yonezawa: Experience develops people. Just like adults, I think children can gain a lot from real-life experiences. I think it's great that you can gain information with your whole body by going, seeing with your own eyes, and experiencing it.

Kusagaya: I hear that many children these days, like my own, spend their time outside of school either at cram school or looking at their smartphones, so adults may have to actively take them to such places. While there is an abundance of secondary and tertiary information, it is a bit scary when raising children that there are fewer opportunities to make first-hand information that has real experience into one's own flesh and blood.

Yonezawa: Obtaining information that is based on actual experience is very important for children to grow up. It's the same with food, and I think it's important to first know what's good. I think if you know what's good, you'll be able to make good choices when you're forced to make a choice as an adult. This doesn't mean that you shouldn't eat expensive food or junk food, but I want them to gain more experience with food so that they can become adults who can make their own choices.

Kusagaya: Mr. Yonezawa, do you talk about this with your children?

Yonezawa: I'm not talking about direct experience, but the other day my daughter learned about the SDGs at elementary school, and she learned a lot about water in particular. I'm also involved in thinking about the future of the ocean with Chefs for the Blue, so I thought I knew a certain amount of things, but hearing the story from a child's perspective often made me realize it all over again. It was an event that made me realize that there is a lot we can learn from children.

Kusagaya: That's right.

Yonezawa: In today's world where we are flooded with information, even adults have difficulty sorting through information, and I think it's quite a hurdle to ask children to do it themselves. Until children reach a certain age and are able to make decisions within themselves, it is better to give children opportunities to experience things and think about them, even if parents can guide them. In fact, if there is no place where they can have the ideal experience, I think it would be fine for their parents to provide one for them.

Kusagaya: At the Brooklyn Museum, we want to be a place where we can provide experiences that are not possible at school, such as letting people touch leather materials made by top-class craftsmen and learning about the process of making leather items.We have held events before, but we would like to do something like that again when society has calmed down. We have many customers whose children are around elementary school age, and we often hear from them that they want to give them experiences that they would not be able to experience on their own. You could call it "social studies using your hands" other than cram school or lessons. I wish I could be in a place like that.

Yonezawa: “Studying social science through hands-on activities”? That’s great! I would be happy if people could realize something important within themselves through such experiences. For example, I like to make things, like to think about things, like to like to eat things, I think anything really is fine. I'm sure that each of these experiences will help you develop your own sense of values, and may even serve as a starting point for choosing a career in the future.

Kusagaya: Certainly. When choosing a job, there is always some kind of original experience.

Yonezawa: I want my children to find their own vision of the future. It's quite difficult, but I feel like a ``common vision of the future'' is starting to waver starting from my generation. I feel like the number of people who want to do what they want to do, even if it's a little off track, instead of just graduating from university and joining a company, started to increase around the age of 20. For example, starting a business.

Kusagaya: That may be true.

Yonezawa: I'm fortunate enough to be able to do what I want to do as a job, but if I were to ask if I could give any advice about life to children today, it's a different time and there are many things that can't be generalized. That's why I want to help people create their own value standards so that they can find their own way of life.

Kusagaya: Society has changed dramatically over the past 20 years. As you say, what parents can do in the future may be to create "standards" that will enable children to think for themselves and make choices.

Yonezawa: If Kusagaya-san and I were to collaborate, what kind of things would we be able to do?

Kusagaya: That's right... For example, we made the menu cover for Mr. Yonezawa's restaurant out of leather, the credit card sign board, and the cash tray out of leather.

Yonezawa: Good! Looks cool!

Kusagaya: For example, if Mr. Yonezawa's cows were turned into leather or used in cooking, it would be interesting to see a story emerge from that.

Yonezawa: That's right! It's interesting to see part of the food you eat in a different form right in front of your eyes. It's a visible form of circulation. If you listen to this story at the time of accounting, it will probably leave a lasting impression on you as an experience.

Kusagaya: I think it will give you a chance to think about various things.

Yonezawa: I would love for you to make it!

Kusagaya: Also, real events seem interesting. This was meant to create an opportunity for the ``hands-on social studies'' mentioned in the story. For example, we hold workshops on making leather accessories for children in our store, serve Mr. Yonezawa's food at catering events, and serve alcoholic beverages for adults (lol). So, I decided to donate a portion of the sales and let the children experience that kind of thing...

Yonezawa: Good! Awesome! It's a good experience for children, and it's an opportunity for adults and children to experience circulation through food and leather together!

Kusagaya: Let's make this happen soon!

Yonezawa: Let's do it! I have more fun things to do again.

From our spring interview to summer, we went to Mr. Yonezawa's new store [NO CODE], which opened the other day.
We enjoyed a delicious course meal, and at the end, we handed over a persimmon tangy and indigo dyed cash tray.

A cash tray that ages with the history of the store. Please check it out at the end of your visit.